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Ray “Plea Bargain” Paige, noted attorney of Wayne County Circuit Court, lays out the naked reality: No money, no care, no justice. Three dead and counting.

Their names are:

Arielle Anderson

Brian Fraser

Alexandria Verner

In place of the usual lofty unrealistic bullshit, Ray sifts through the dirt. What is “the system”? What are “preemptive measures”? The morgue doesn’t care.

Ray, a Black man, states specific penalties are needed.   Being caught once with a concealed firearm without a permit in Michigan lands you on probation, barring it being accompanied with a violent crime.

This is how a monster, who neighbors say was firing off rounds the week prior, wound up on Grand River Avenue Monday night armed to the teeth.  All with the thumbs up from the legal system. The gun laws are already in place, murky though they may be.  These laws need to be enforced.  They need to be easily digestible to law enforcement, judicial entities, and criminals alike.

Hippie Jesus emerges from behind the soundboard to chronicle the massacre that didn’t have to be committed against, his words, his family.  Tuesday, he arrived at a hollow campus in mourning.

Jesus walks campus. He rides the bus. He talks to the students who may never emerge from under this cloud.  He looks for the answers no one has. To no one’s astonishment, he can’t find them.

We can do better. We don’t need excess laws. We don’t need mental health help, It’s not coming.

They did not die in vain.


Speaker 1 (00:20):
You cannot be careful if there’s a lunatic running around campus with a gun, but I don’t know what you can do. It’s like it has never happened before. For me, I have no experience with a gunman running around a campus. I’m an international student, so this is new and bizarre to me. It took me like 15 minutes straight to explain my father what happened and he couldn’t just understand how a person can just come into a university or a high school and just shoot people. The motive is doing as much damage as they can, and that’s terrifying for a student. They have a gun. We have no defense. And the cops came. They did their jobs, but they couldn’t find them in time. Three people died, five got shot. It’s like a very serious issue here.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Live downtown Detroit. It’s

Speaker 3 (01:36):

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Just breaking, do more bullshit. Do more bullshit.

Speaker 5 (01:53):
Well, that man right there, Ray, that was well said. That that young man. This where you talk, Ray.

Speaker 6 (02:02):
All right, listen, I had to take me a little snooze before I drank the rest of this booze, but I’m glad to be here on the show. We got a lot to talk about today. I’m going to try to give a legal perspective to it and see how we can chop it up in this next hour. Beau,

Speaker 5 (02:16):
Look at this guy. This look at this. This is if you ladies and gentlemen don’t know, this is Ray Plea bargain page <laugh>. This guy works in the Wayne County Courts third circuit court. This is the guy, he’s the defender guys in with a weapons charge him murder. How many murder cases you done?

Speaker 6 (02:38):
I probably did about five to 600 over 35 years.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
You hear me there? Now this is the perspective. This is what you need. This is plain spoken Ray page. The guy is a titan here, so he’s going to lay that out.

Don’t, this is difficult, Karen. So I, I’m going to, before we want to introduce our sponsors so we don’t have to interrupt this knowledge that we’re about to do so, but before I do that, I just want to name the victims. They deserve it. They say that a person dies twice. Once when their heart stops and the other time is when their name is spoken for the last time. So they’re, they’re alive. Ariel Anderson, Alexandria Verner, and Brian Fraser and there are others clinging to life. Not to bum you out. Let’s get into this. We have some exclusive material here. We’ve been working it. I’m very proud of Z sro, baby Jesus. He went up there and he worked it. It’s important to him. That’s his community. He went to school there. You went to school there, Ray Law School. Yeah. Yes. Detroit College of Law at Michigan State.

Yes. Thanks for the plug. Your son’s going to medical school there. Absolutely. Karen went there. If it’s got Michigan in it, it’s all of ours and we don’t want it to pass away. It’s just another one in a totem board. You know what I mean? Right. Let’s break this thing apart. But as we do that, it’s difficult to do. But again, if you like the show and you’re part of this community, please patronize the people that make the show possible. If you scroll right down there, that is a Ky Coney. Yes, that is a ky, which is a Polish pastry. This is for Fat Tuesday because Len comes on Wednesday. There it is. Is a one day only. Yes. One day only. It’s Tuesday. Look at this. How many cows you think got? It’s a punchy. It’s a glazed Polish pastry with the Coney, all the fish and sweet and savory. They sell like thousands of these every Tuesday. Then Wednesday come, or every after Wednesday, every Friday comes that delicious fish sandwich here at the American Coney. I mean the fish is Pollock. It’s Atlantic po Pacific Pollock. That’s delicious. Better than co. Yeah, it isn’t it Karen? Better than cod? Yes. The lettuce is fresh. Can’t even find lettuce. Tomatoes fresh. The buns is steam. Unbelievable. But come Tuesday, get to Pke mark. Yeah, you want to stuff that down your gullet there, bro. <laugh>, go ahead. Come over and get it. Come over and get it.

Speaker 7 (05:27):
I got one here. Believe it or

Speaker 5 (05:28):
Not. Yeah, I thought you did. This is going to be mess. I thought you did. And you’ll be eating that one later.

Speaker 7 (05:32):
I mean, I got to say anything for the

Speaker 5 (05:34):
Show. Okay? Anything

Speaker 7 (05:35):
For, I mean not because I’m fat and I like to eat.

Speaker 8 (05:39):
Mark, I

Speaker 5 (05:40):
Feel bad for the man’s body image. If I have a body image. Imagine his body image. Ray

Speaker 7 (05:47):
<laugh>. We’re talking about

Speaker 9 (05:48):

Speaker 7 (05:51):
I hear it. Go straight to the neck.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
Wait, quiet. You hear that? That’s his artery’s hardening.

Speaker 6 (05:58):
Oh man,

Speaker 5 (05:59):
I don’t say that Charlie. Okay, this is artery’s getting soft because it’s the magic of the pk. And by the way, mark it. Listen, it is good. Okay? Keep eating bro. But I recommend you get your life insurance from Legacy Partners. You like that Red? You like that transition? Liz, I’ve been telling you about how they can help you with Medicare. They can help you with your boat, your rv, your motorcycle, your home. If I didn’t say that already, your life insurance, they shop for you. They get you to lo I do. You know I got more insurance Ray at a thousand dollars less. Is that right? I mean, just magical. $1,000. I got more for less. You

Speaker 6 (06:38):
Got the wrong underwriter.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
This sounds to me it’s like voting for president. I got less for more and they flipped it right over

Speaker 6 (06:45):

Speaker 5 (06:46):
All right, they’re independence of they shop for year. Here’s what you do. 5 8 6 2 0 9 4 1 0 6. They’ll get back to you that day. If they don’t, you call me. I’ll make sure that’s a promise between me and this vast community. We’re building 5 8 6 2 0 9 4 1 0 6. Legacy Partners. That’s who I use for insurances. Luke [inaudible] guy called it. Yeah, overreactions not the strategy. Hid not at all.

Speaker 10 (07:14):
This message of uplift is brought to you by business and Personal Wealth advisor, Luke Noki. Who reminds you that what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but never enter the kingdom of God? But while you’re waiting, Noki wants you to remember that overreaction is not a sound financial strategy. So call Luke Noki at two four eight six six three four seven four eight four Sound Financial.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
And lemme tell you about Hall real quick. Mortgage interest rates are the lowest they’ve been in over five months and the majority of Hall financial clients are locking in rates in the fives. In the fives, okay? Use the equity in your home to put yourself in a better financial situation. If you’ve got one, lower your note. It’s the most affordable way to eliminate credit card debt. A ray, write this down. Do you have a house?

Speaker 6 (08:04):

Speaker 5 (08:05):
Are you writing any of this down?

Speaker 6 (08:06):
Well, listen, listen, my house is went to my last three wives, so I don’t

Speaker 5 (08:12):
What are you? The salt in the brunai. You got three wives in there lately. One gets the bathroom, one gets the powder room and one gets the garage. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (08:20):
They all increased their zip codes as a result of me said

Speaker 5 (08:25):
<laugh>. So you’re renting,

Speaker 6 (08:26):

Speaker 5 (08:30):
I told you

Speaker 6 (08:31):

Speaker 5 (08:32):
That’s Ray plea bargain, your Honor. I’m broke. I’m pleading. I’m pleading with you. Get me a bargain. <laugh>. Listen, a free five minute mortgage review. Review with Hall Financial is all it takes to see how much money you’ve gained in home equity. Mar doesn’t have one, the majority of, but you still have to pay for

Speaker 6 (08:51):
It. Yeah,

Speaker 5 (08:52):
Dude, wait, come on over here. Get ready. Write this down. <laugh>, the majority, the majority of Hall Financial loans close in two weeks or less. Meaning you get your money faster. Whether you’re looking to purchase a new home or refinance current home, you need to call Hall Financial first at ready. This is a difficult one. Eight, six, six. Call hall.

Speaker 6 (09:13):
Eight six call

Speaker 5 (09:14):
Hall. Wait, look at that. I got him in the commercial. Look at that.

Speaker 6 (09:17):
I passed the bar

Speaker 5 (09:18):
One time. Hey David. David, I mean, thanks for supporting the show. You see what we do? We got raid Ray Plea bargain page over here doing commercials for you. Listen, or you can just chat online with 5,000 or more. Last time I checked more on 5,005 star reviews, bro. Fact, that’s fact. Okay, you ready to get into this, Karen? Yep. All right. What do we know? Lemme make sure I get this business right. Okay, Anthony, Duane McCray. He got two legally purchased pistols and he goes on a rampage where your baby is improving himself. Not acceptable, but let’s start with this now. McRay was picked up in 2019, Ray for having a loaded pistol concealed without a permit. Is that a felony?

Speaker 6 (10:23):
It’s a call, a carry and concealed weapon without a license or permit. It’s a four year maximum felony. It’s normally probationable if it’s your first time offense and it does not carry a mandatory two years with it. A lot of people have the confusion and believe that if you have a gun, it automatically gets you too. But you got to have the gun plus be in commission of some kind of felony.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Okay? You got to be robbing a liquor

Speaker 6 (10:46):
Store, something like that. You

Speaker 5 (10:47):
Got to have drugs with you.

Speaker 6 (10:49):
Yeah. Kidnapping drugs.

Speaker 5 (10:50):
Breaking into a

Speaker 6 (10:51):
House. Breaking into a house.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
Okay, so first of all, people got that incorrect. It’s not like he was going to be stuck with a two year felony if they charged him for carrying without a permit.

Speaker 6 (11:03):
The two year felony is a mandatory two years in jail and you got to go to Jackson Prison on that. So what he was stopped for was a CC W and it was not attached to a felony firearm.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
And now, so the judge has the discretion here. Okay? He’s charged the whole system. Ray, you’ll work Wayne County for fuck’s sake. How many of these things do you see?

Speaker 6 (11:28):
Hundreds and hundreds of ’em each year. I mean I don’t know how many CCW cases I’ve done over 35 years, but it’s not unusual for a person to be stopped with a gun. We have an open carry law here. It’s easy to get a cpl and a lot of the judges have loosen up on how serious they consider defense of carrying a weapon is since it’s so easy to get a license now, and if you put everybody in jail that was carrying a weapon, you wouldn’t have any jails to put people

Speaker 5 (11:58):
In. We’d have 40 million people in jail and we can’t even handle what we got there. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So this isn’t, you go away. We’re hearing the Sorrows prosecutor, what’s her name? Carol Seaman. Yes, she resigned. Yep. Right? Yep. She wasn’t going to hit anybody with any felony gun stuff unless it was in commission of a serious crime. But she could have charged the guy, as you’re saying, with a felony given him zero time, made him pick up litter, right, and put a felony in United’s record so he couldn’t get a legal firearm.

Speaker 6 (12:37):
Absolutely. But there’s so many variations of sentencings and ways that judges and prosecutors and defense lawyers deal with these issues. And so in this particular case, you’d look back and do Tuesday and Monday night review of what happened on Sunday, and you say, well, we should have done that. But that’s an easy way to approach it. But the hard part of it is what do we do in the future to prevent these things from happening again?

Speaker 5 (13:03):
Okay, let’s stop there. Care for a second. Well, well done, dude. God, you’re good at this. You can fill in here any time, brother.

Speaker 6 (13:10):
Well, you listen. We can call it the Ray page show.

Speaker 5 (13:13):
No, no. This is rock bottom plea bargain. That’s what you going to, we’re going to call in and call in. Let’s make a deal. All right. But this is Baby Jay. Zack grow growing, and he went up to Lansing and I haven’t seen it because I want to be surprised and see the man’s growth, and I want to see what he did. And I’m told he made a beautiful poem here. So I want to roll that before we go any farther.

Speaker 11 (13:50):
My name’s Z grow better known to most as hippie Jesus from NBN News Hour. I’m an alumni. MSU is my home. And yesterday someone broke into my home and hurt my family. So I felt the need to come here and check on my brothers and sisters to see how they were holding up. It wasn’t good. The first thing I saw was vultures on the corner doing their cookie cutter interviews. It made me sad and then it made me sick and I wondered if these people even bothered to walk through campus to really understand how it had changed.

Speaker 12 (14:38):
Some of my friends worked at the union that night. I was really fucking worried when the night came and it’s just baffling that they were going to hit the school. I always had a feeling they were going to hit this school, but I never thought it would be like that.

Speaker 11 (14:57):
The only thing I ever had to worry about going through campus with my friends was getting an M I P. Yeah. And never felt unsafe. Where are you at?

Speaker 13 (15:07):
I think generally there’s a sense of insecurity and I feel it too. I heard somebody suggest that they have, ID locks on all buildings instead of just residential halls. I think that’s probably a good idea. I don’t really have much hope at a legislative level, unfortunately.

Speaker 11 (15:38):
Can you put into words what it’s like now?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
I mean, I’m an international student, so this is new and bizarre to me that a person can just come in a university or a high school and just shoot people. Their motive is doing as much damage as they can and they just kill themselves afterwards. Their motive is doing as much damage as they can. And that’s terrifying for a student. They have a gun. We have no defense. And the cops came, they did their jobs, but they couldn’t find them in time. Three people died, five got shot.

Speaker 14 (16:13):
It took ’em so long to, I don’t even think they ever officially caught the dude. They spent four hours. We were locked up in there for four hours. I feel like, I don’t know, I’m no police officer. I don’t know how hard that is, but I feel like they could have did a little bit better. So maybe just improve the police situation a little bit. Just a little bit.

Speaker 11 (16:31):
So you would say it was kind of a dog and pony show and you didn’t feel it was a sufficient job?

Speaker 14 (16:36):
Not entirely, no. A lot of my friends kind of said the same thing. They were like, why’s taking ’em so long? And my cousin too. I was just talking to him this morning. We were just texting. We were just like, it should not have, I just feel like shouldn’t have taken that long.

Speaker 11 (16:49):
How do you see yourself moving forward with your daily routines?

Speaker 15 (16:52):
I don’t know, because it’ll be hard for me because especially the events where they happen, those are just normal study spots for me. And it’s just hard to go back knowing that something that bad happened there. So I think just time and just having to accept that something this bad happened at somewhere that I call home. Now,

Speaker 11 (17:25):
These folks aren’t in a good place. Neither am I. The only answers I received today was maybe more police around campus and time. These kids still have to go to class. They still have to lead social lives. They still have to be young people. Will something ever come of this? Probably not. Looks like we’re back to the same old bullshit, but here’s the hoping,

Speaker 5 (18:10):
Hey, Karen we all in the staff meeting asked you to look into how prevalent this is.

Speaker 16 (18:19):
Well, Charlie, I don’t want to, I can’t, and I’m going to share some stats with you, but I don’t want to do like everybody else has been doing. And that’s crunching numbers and pushing stats to try to gain some understanding for something. It makes something make sense that does not as the guy that Zach talked to said, I’m an international student, this is totally incomprehensible to him. On campus shootings have been documented since the sixties, 1966 at the University of Texas and Austin where they were 31 people that were shot mean. Certainly we always think about Virginia Tech in terms of collegiate on-campus

Speaker 5 (18:54):
Shooting. That’s the big, is that not the biggest mass shooting

Speaker 16 (18:57):
That not issue that? But so far, but this is the issue. There is not a universal definition for what a mass shooting is, including one for the fbi. They don’t have a definition of what a mass shooting is. They have a definition of a mass murder. So because there’s not a universal definition, everybody categorizes what happens either on campus or in a school differently. So if you ask, what does that mean, it’s too much, Charlie. I mean, we talked about Uvalde 22, Sandy Hook, Columbine, those are schools but universities now, Michigan State

Speaker 5 (19:35):
And what you’re saying, this is separate from what goes on at seven and Southfield at a gas station, that then Exactly.

Speaker 16 (19:42):

Speaker 5 (19:42):
Or the

Speaker 16 (19:42):
Walls or

Speaker 5 (19:43):
<laugh>, that’s just considered every day. We don’t even count that. We’re talking about, I don’t know what we’re talking about Ray, but I’ll say this. He gets picked up, okay. They, he’s charged with that felony. The prosecutor decides we’re not doing a felony. So they come up with another charge. In my opinion, and my vast experience with all this, they made up a charge, which was possession of a firearm in a vehicle. They found the guy on a stoop and he was riding a bicycle, but it’s a charge. And he gets probation and he is still not clear how he violated probation, but they extended his probation, explained to me what that might mean. And we’re talking Wayne County now the most overburdened court system in the United States. There’s no doubt about that. You are doing Superman work. So go ahead.

Speaker 6 (20:43):
Later there. There’s a multiple ways that you can violate probation. One way to violate probation people don’t think about it, is you don’t have the wherewithal to pay the fines and costs. And so that’s a way that you can violate probation. Another way you might violate probation is that you didn’t a, attend a certain class or do enough workforce requirements. But at the end of the day, the judge has to make a decision, a balancing test between do I put this person in jail and have him take up space? Versus someone that’s committed a very serious crime, like armed robbery, kidnapping, murder. The last thing that the people in our population want is those people. Thank you, Charlie. Those people that committed these horrifying crimes, a kidnapping, murder, mayhem, rape. Would you rather let them out and put a guy charged with a gun, taken up that space?

So the balancing test is this, are we better off letting the guy that didn’t really have any convictions or criminal record per se, had caught with a gun? If he had done the right thing, he was eligible. He’s eligible to get a c p license if he just jumped through the courses. And so I can understand how this thing happened, but on the flip side, the public has to understand that there’s a lot more people walking the street that was walking the streets right now that have been laid all in jail for more serious crimes.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
See, that’s fucked up.

Speaker 6 (22:19):
Well, it, I don’t know. Can I say it’s fucked up too? Oh, please. Okay. Hey, this is a different than a courtroom. I like it here.

Speaker 5 (22:26):
Yeah, keep going now. Keep

Speaker 6 (22:27):
Going. Yeah, it is fucked up. And the thing about it is that how we unfuck it up,

Speaker 5 (22:35):

Speaker 6 (22:36):
Well, here’s the deal. It starts with our state legislators. They have to promulgate and create laws that make certain things not within the judge’s province. And I, I’m really a student against things like that. But we got to start somewhere. We got to fix something that’s broke.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
So you’re saying I’m not for mandatory anything, but it’s getting so surly out of hand, covid, underfunded that maybe we do

Speaker 6 (23:04):
Right? Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because the society, well, I’m

Speaker 5 (23:08):
Not kind of surprised by that now. I mean, I’m looking at a woman of a certain age with the gray hair up there in Ingham County talking the opposite of what you are talking about. Black man of a certain age with no hair at all. You see what I’m saying? Are we getting caught up in politics and realities getting divorced from what they’re doing at the levels that we hire people, legislature, prosecutors, et cetera?

Speaker 6 (23:46):

Speaker 5 (23:48):
I’m asking to be real

Speaker 6 (23:49):
Here. The reality of it is that where do you start fixing it at? Did, you can’t fix it locally. You got to fix it by state statute and by promulgating publishing new laws. Now, again, I’m not per se in favor of mandatory sentencings in cases like this, but it has to start with a serious discussion in our legislation and with our governor and see where we can come together and try to repair some of this stuff.

Speaker 5 (24:22):
Okay. So Karen, if I might, okay, go ahead. And then I know, I always know you’re itching. It’s like you got a tingle. I know. I got a tingle. We’re like family. So Ray, the guy, it’s a serious thing to be carrying a loaded piece. And it’s not registered. You are not registered. He gets the slap on the wrist of probation and he doesn’t honor it. How This is Detroit where you work This Wayne County, Wayne ca, besides Detroit, Wayne county’s a rough joint, right? True,

Speaker 6 (24:59):
Absolutely. But I’ve worked all over the state of Michigan. I’ve had cases in Lansing and the cases in Grand Rapids in Muskegon. And every city in jurisdiction has different kinds of policies. But it’s not unusual for a person in Wayne County to get probation or get a lesson included. I get charge to move the docket along

Speaker 5 (25:22):
And to move the docket along. And by the way, here’s my liberal side of being from a real place. You’re caught the first time with a piece. We all live in America. We know what’s going on. No, you shouldn’t be doing jail slash prison. And it’s a felony. That’s prison time. There’s the difference between jail and prison. Jail is a year or less. Absolutely. Prison is a year in a day plus. Today there’s a difference. Don’t call it jail, it’s prison. One state and one’s county. But having said that, in your vast, vast experience, 600 murder cases, probably a thousand of these things, when a guy gets pimped on an illegal gun charge, how many of them flip the nose at the criminal justice system and tell the judge to fuck off, don’t show up to the probation officer. What percentage would you put that at?

Speaker 6 (26:14):
Less than 20%.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Less than 20. Even in

Speaker 6 (26:16):
Detroit, any, even in Detroit. And I

Speaker 5 (26:19):
Don’t mean that as a put down to in Detroit. Detroit is big, is wild. It’s vague. You can get lost in here. That’s what I mean about it. It’s the big city. Less than 20%.

Speaker 6 (26:31):
Less than 20% people come into the system and they’re a core of certain people that are just, it’s innate that they’re going to continue to be commit crimes. But the majority of people that come through the system are not repeat offenders.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
So let me pause you there. Lemme pause you there. So what does a judge give somebody who got a break on a gun charge and then you decided to fuck you to your probation terms? What normally happens? Be honest. Second chance. Did they get 30 days? What happens

Speaker 6 (27:05):
Sometime they go to jail for 30, 60 days. But if they continue to be snubbing in the nose at the system, a lot of ’em go to jail and some of ’em go to prison. And that happens

Speaker 5 (27:17):
When you make a plea deal. By the way, we’re speaking with Ray plea bargain page <laugh>. When you’re charged with the felony and the prosecutor lessens it, can the judge still hold the felony over your head if you don’t make the terms of your misdemeanor?

Speaker 6 (27:34):
No. No. I mean not. In most cases, if you plead to a misdemeanor and you violate the terms of that misdemeanor, the maximum for misdemeanors in Michigan, most of ’em are 93 day misdemeanors. But the kind of misdemeanor that he plead to was probably a year. So the maximum person can do is max out on a year and can’t

Speaker 5 (27:58):
In jail. You can’t bring the felony back.

Speaker 6 (27:59):
Can’t bring the felony

Speaker 5 (28:00):
Back. That’s illegal. Karen, I’m I’m sorry. Your turn. No,

Speaker 16 (28:03):
No, no, you’re fine. I’m just thinking, and maybe this isn’t the right question to ask an attorney, but Ray, I mean we just really talking about a system that’s almost not set up to work. And I say that because mean attorneys can be effective on both sides of the aisle, if you will, or on both sides of the desk. It comes down to who can argue the same law to the best of their ability to represent their client. And at the end of the day, I mean, does it really work?

Speaker 5 (28:40):

Speaker 6 (28:41):
Well, the system is broke. Karen, you’re absolutely right. But it’s the best system that we got and the best system we know to mankind. Pause that a

Speaker 5 (28:49):
Minute. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Because we’re brothers. We having a cocktail? All right. It doesn’t work. And it’s the best we got. I’m sorry I’m not, I’m till my dying breath on this earth doing anything but looking for something better, Ray. But

Speaker 6 (29:08):
Continue, if you can come up with a better cookie cutter or system, then I implore you to submit it on for evaluation. But right now, this is the best that we got. Yes, it’s underfunded. Yes. It’s under police. Yes. There’s not enough judges and there’s not enough jail space. And one of the things, a big elephant in the room that we’ve not talked about and should be talked about is that we got a lot of mentally ill people walking around the streets. This guy had a history of al illness. There was no help for him. The Republicans years ago got away from that, got us away from the option of getting these people help. And now these are the unintended consequences of not having the right mental healthcare in this state. We got people walking around here.

Speaker 16 (29:58):
But you got a guy that was shooting out of his back door, right? That didn’t send up any red flags. The neighbor said that, Hey, we called the police. The police said that they didn’t come. There were no wellness checks. I mean, on this guy, everybody said he was a loner that didn’t send up any. So we have all these cracks that we continue to allow people to fall through. And this can be applied to everything, whether it’s mental health, whether it’s crime, whether it’s education, whether it’s in nursing homes. Our system is severely broken and the people that it’s supposed to serve continue to suffer as a result while we just play the shell game with it.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Cause society’s broken, not the system. The system’s a reflection of the society and what people want. And you said earlier, we can do the blame game. Well, God damn right, we’re going to do the blame game. My brother fucks up, I’m blaming him. Right, right,

Speaker 6 (30:49):
Right. In this particular mental,

Speaker 5 (30:51):
Again, mental health in this, we’re not building a hospital and we’re not doing gun laws. So we got shit in place right now that could have remediated this situation. There

Speaker 6 (31:04):
Were red flags. As Karen said he was shooting outside the house. There was reports that neighbors would calling the police. Police did not respond. There was not a welfare check relative to the individual himself. I think I heard somewhere down the road that there was a welfare check for his dad for, I don’t know what that means.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
Waited. Hey, listen. That’s professional because you know what? We got the video, bro. Okay, so here’s what we have. Baby J goes back to Lansing because he’s committed to this story. And also he was ski wearing skinny jean hiker pants <laugh> when he went there the first time that don’t have room for your wallet. So he had him in his hoodie pocket and it fell out. So to be honest, he was going to look for his wallet. Listen anybody in East Lansings says Zack screws his name. He, it’s still at his mom’s house. If you could send it to his mom’s house, that would be great show that we’re all together. But he went looking for it. And I go, you’re in East Lansing. Go to the neighborhood. Because two hours before the chief of police is going to tell you this, Karen.

Speaker 16 (32:12):

Speaker 5 (32:13):
You’ll, it’ll be followed by what Zach heard from the neighbors. So Mark, this is what the chief of police said around three, four o’clock this afternoon.

Speaker 17 (32:24):
L P D has not responded to any welfare checks for Anthony McRay. There was a welfare check at the address on Hall Street on February 5th, but was not related to the accused. And L P D has not been called in any way to any shots fired at this address.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Pause that. So what did we hear? We never got any shots fired. Calls we’ll get, we’ll address it in a minute. But then he says a week before the mass murder in East Lansing that the police got a call for a wellness check at the, well, he’s dead. So I don’t have to call him alleged shit at the murderer’s home where he lived with his dad. You want to tell us, chief, what was the circumstances of the wellness check? Who called under what circumstance do you really think, Ray? That’s his place. That’s his son’s place. Karen. That’s her place. Her kids’ place, Zach, all of our place. That’s all of our place. It’s what we said in our kids. You think you’re getting away with that? Oh, it was unrelated. What you mean? It was unrelated? You mean dude was firing in the house and you didn’t write it down? Ray the system. We don’t got enough money. Where’s the system?

Speaker 6 (33:52):
Well, here’s what I think is happened with the police chief. He knows, he know or should know that a bunch of lawsuits are going to emanate from this. Oh, not only, not only is the Lansing Police Department culpable, Michigan State University security might have a significant problem. And so a lot of people are going to be looking for ways to Remy this monetarily. You can’t fix it, you know? Can’t fix it mentally. People going to be addressing this issue with lawsuits. And I, I’m sure that the Lansing Police Department, east Lansing Police Department in Michigan, state Security police or the police on the campus there are going to be sued. And the lawyers are lining up right now to figure out the kinds of actions to bring against those particular bodies. Now,

Speaker 5 (34:45):
You know, didn’t say it and it’s leading. You might not admit it, but what you’re saying is the chief is bullshitting because he’s hunkering down for the storm coming on him. We’re not sure we want, we’re not getting paid to be sitting in these bullshit press conferences. And I’m trying to, my young penis, the milo over here, <laugh>, I’m going to teach this guy to be the sexiest, smartest journalist in the world if he’s sitting there. Well, what do you mean you went over there? Because then he did go over to the neighborhood. This is one of how many’s, Zach, how many neighbors you talk to? Four. Four. Four. They all have the same story. Yep. They called the police. Yep. They got shit on video. Yep. We don’t got the video yet, but we’re going to get that video. Oh yeah. Okay, let’s roll the neighbor. Ms. Bender.

Speaker 18 (35:33):
The cops have been called there for the shots being fired the back door into the backyard.

Speaker 19 (35:40):
And to the best of your knowledge, was anything done about

Speaker 18 (35:43):
It? No. They were called and that the gun was fired out the back while the cops were there.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
That’s the neighbor. She sounded like a liar to you.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
No, she sounds very convincing. And she doesn’t have no reason to lie. I mean, if I picked juries every week and she seemed to be quite credible, quite credible. I saw no embellishment going on there. I saw she just told her like it was,

Speaker 5 (36:12):
And she’s nervous because the whole world, something horrible happened and we want to know again, it stung me. And not in a good way, dude, when you said, dude we can Sunday, Monday morning quarterback this thing. You’re right. But we could have maybe prevented this maybe without any extra money, without any extra laws, without any shit for hospitals that we’re never going to get. You do have a prosecutor, Carol Seaman, who says basically, now this is what I want to get to Detroit. When you telegraph the people, I’m no longer going to charge you a felony on these firearm shits. Right? That says something to people carrying guns. And it says something to the police. Ah man, fuck it man. She ain’t going to charge it any way. You know what I mean? So we do a drive by, ding that dad, baby, we showed up well in this check and there’s no record of it. Does that fit what you’ve seen in life?

Speaker 6 (37:19):
Well, if you’re in the streets and you, you know that by carrying a gun up in East Lansing on Lansing or in that county, that it’s not a priority of course, you know, walk around with a gun and it’s get unintended consequences like you got here where someone with a gun that got a misdemeanor was eligible to buy two guns, loaded them guns up, carried them magazines onto the campus and caused all of this tragedy. And the tragedy is not just the fact that you got eight people that were shot, three are dead. I mean, the tragedy is the parents, the parents and the aunts and the uncles and all the other people that are affected by this for the long term. And the post-traumatic stress that this is going to carry on to not only the people that maybe was involved in the shooting, but the student body as a whole. So this is a, for Michigan and for this country, this is a tragedy and I’m glad we’re talking about it and I’m glad you got people on your staff here investigating and doing the bright kind of journalism that you are noted for. Charlie, stop the bullshit and let’s get deep into it

Speaker 5 (38:34):
And out what’s going on. Mark’s got a question, but before we do that thing, it’s important to say the name of Ariel Anderson. Alexandria Verner and Brian Frazier.

Speaker 7 (38:48):
I was just going to echo let you know what someone wrote on Facebook. Donald said his niece was one of the victims and he’s sorry, seems very pissed. He says, have the judge and assuming the prosecutor talked to my family and tried to persuade us that she made the right decision,

Speaker 5 (39:02):
Right? Yeah. What’s his name?

Speaker 7 (39:05):
Donald Neal.

Speaker 5 (39:06):
Is he here listening now? He is. Yeah. Donald brother, I’m sorry. We know tragedy in my family. All of our families do. Once again, as Ray’s saying it, it, it’s a turns style. It’s all fucked up, dude. And again, this guy, no priors, no nothing. They give him the misdemeanor. Okay? I mean, dude, it’s Detroit. You can’t, it’s Livonia, it’s Westland, it’s New York City. We just can’t lock everybody up. But then it comes to the probation. Like Ray say, 80% of the people followed through with the probation. So now this guy should be on the radar. And then there’s no doubt in my mind, like Ray said again, brilliant lawyer, the woman seems credible. There’s no hiccup, there’s no S smartness. There’s no bullshit getting, even Zack did the reporting. We’ll get more video because it takes video now. He should have been on the radar. Yep. But I can’t, not really going to go there with the prosecutor doing that. The wokeness kind of bums me out because it’s making an excuse for shit. But I think that is correct. We don’t have enough room in the in, but the minute you that you ffl your nose at Ray will make a plea bargain for you honor it. You don’t got to do, like you said, something mandatory. You violate your probation on a weapons charge,

Here’s 45, and you won’t pick up some garbage motherfucker. And if you fuck up again, then you get a felony, you get another 45 days. But you notice, what’s his name? Donald. Donald. You notice that all these mass murders, not in the city, not on the corners because apparently we don’t care about that. But Uvalde and Michigan State and Oxford and we can go on. They’re done with legal weapons. You notice that? Yeah. So we could have stopped this guy because he didn’t honor the terms of the break that society gave him. And then as Karen brought up, he’s taking pot shots off the porch and the chief of police is trying to tell me the neighbors are lying about it. Well, you know where we’re going. You’re going to be up there Sunday motherfucker. Yep. It’s important. It’s not Monday morning quarterbacking, bro. It’s not. It’s like we got the thread bear shit. You are talking about that you thank you for being here. Thread bear shit. And we’re not even doing that. And I’m not even blame the police. What the fuck, man? The prosecutor ain’t going to charge anyway.

Speaker 7 (42:07):
I did. I didn’t want to ask Ray a question though, because you made reference to about how a lot of times it’s just clearing the docket, right? Because they’re so overwhelmed. Is the way to fix that, is it simply money or is it the way the system is set up and there’s only so many judges that are allowed? I mean, what is the,

Speaker 5 (42:21):
I’m sorry to interrupt.

Speaker 7 (42:22):
Yeah, please do.

Speaker 5 (42:23):
No, no more. It’s our show. But no more on this program that we call something as empty as the system. So use some fucking nouns so we know what we’re talking about and where we want to look. You got Ray.

Speaker 7 (42:37):
Is it as simple then as funding these courts or adding more ju I mean, can they add more judges? Can they make new districts? I don’t even know how that works. How do you clear up a docket to It works the way it’s supposed to work.

Speaker 6 (42:50):
Yeah, we are living in a post covid or continued covid environment. The Covid problem in itself backed the system up. How far?

Speaker 5 (43:00):

Speaker 6 (43:01):
Almost two and a half years.

Speaker 5 (43:02):
Two and a half fucking years. Donald Donald. Two and a half years. Dude. It is like po pa pa move on. You

Speaker 6 (43:12):
Got people, you got people in jail right now that’s been there for almost two and a half, three

Speaker 5 (43:18):
Years. That’s unconstitutional.

Speaker 6 (43:19):
Not of course it is. And have not had that day in court. And so the recorder’s court, Wayne County Circuit Court and other courts around this state have their docket is so backed up. And so when you get a case like a CC W case I can see

Speaker 5 (43:36):
Trump change.

Speaker 6 (43:36):
I can see how a judge could say, Hey listen, jump change. We need to move this on. Give him a misdemeanor n don’t send ’em into the jail space where we need to hold violent offenders. But it’s fucked up, Karen. I know ain’t And that butt is there. It’s fucked up.

Speaker 16 (43:55):
No, I’m at cause because I’m sorry Kara. One of our regular listeners asking was, wasn’t there something where they were releasing non-violent prisoners or offenders that were being detained during Covid at one time?

Speaker 6 (44:09):
Yes, yes, yes. But when you say it is just like what we’re talking about today this guy would’ve been considered a non-violent offender, a C W, and they would’ve let him out of the jail. But you got people in jail right now for armed robbery, kidnapping, rape, murder, et cetera, capital cases that have been waiting for at least two to three years and really, not really, but I want to say this with emphasis, they’re still presumed to be innocent.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
Of course. That’s a predication of American life. And not only the presumption of innocence. A fair and speedy trial. Absolutely. And it’s garbage. It’s gar. Is this correct?

Speaker 6 (44:54):

Speaker 5 (44:55):
It’s Gar. This is fucking Ray. Listen man. Do you take on indigent? Do people call you? Does the public defenders call you? How do you get your clients?

Speaker 6 (45:05):
I get my clients’ word or mouth. Yes. But I do take some pro bono work and I do try to give back to the community and I do that as much as I can. And if somebody tried to reach me, they can call me (313) 510-3335. Let’s do it

Speaker 5 (45:19):

Speaker 6 (45:20):
3 1 3 5 1 0 3 3 5. Or call me or email me at ray page y That’s the letter y Or they can try to find you and you always know how to find me. Well

Speaker 5 (45:32):
We got guys in the can that listen to the program. They don’t miss it. They call in. If you’re in the can and you’re listening, call in and then your voice is legitimate. Donald. I’m really I ain’t going to say a dude. It’s empty.

Speaker 16 (45:54):
Yeah, because Tara, we’re going to be having this conversation. Unfortunately again and again. I was listening to the fake sniffles doing the press conference and the whole Come on. If this were really a priority, if say, and it’s not just about gun laws. I do believe that there’s a role and there’s a place for that. But we live in a gun induced <laugh> violent society where people, they don’t have mental health support, they don’t have socioeconomic support and opportunities that they need. Everything is just fragmented and we are buckling under it every five seconds.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
And every one of us gun owners want the gun laws enforced, right? Yes I can. I see I gave you my lefty <laugh>. We’re not going to lock everybody up. I’m going to give you my righty. We got enough laws. Fucking do it. Listen to Ray. Forget me. That’s Ray Ray’s a famous motherfucker here. Not because he taped dances on a podcast because he does the work every time this happens. You wondered Bob Becker, you’re welcome here. Anytime dude, anytime.

Speaker 6 (47:15):
I appreciate this feels like home, but I wish we were talking about something more lighthearted than what’s happened in Michigan in the last week.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
It’s funny you should say that. <laugh>. How’s your three wives doing?

Speaker 6 (47:27):

Speaker 5 (47:28):
You ask their boyfriends say Woo,

Speaker 20 (47:32):

Speaker 5 (47:33):
Snap. That was good. That snap just like this punch dog. Well you’re not the only one that got put out of your own. Well you got put out of your own house. Red got put out of his wife’s house and he moved into the Normandy. And as I know Canada, you’ve been dying. I’ve been yelling at him. I haven’t watched it. I hope it’s got good pacing. Cause this is a dynamite segment. This is Reg gets put out of the house, he moves into the Fleabag motel up there on Woodward and he tries to make the best of it.

Speaker 20 (48:10):
Trailers for sale, rent, put me out the house. No, started from no by the eight by 12 four bedroom Mama Man of means by no means king of the room. Yeah, I’ve learned a lot since I’ve been staying here at the Normy. For instance, the place open in 1927. So 96 years old. Lot of people consider it skid row of Detroit. Lot of people have different perceptions of the type of people that stay here. But since I’ve been here, what I’ve learned is it’s all types of people and majority of ’em is just here trying to make a come up, spending time around the normy. I ended up meeting some really cool people like this one guy Nick. He’s really become a good friend of mine,

Speaker 21 (49:18):
Man. I’m at the Normy man. Been here about two years, man. It’s, it’s a step up or a step down. You know get up in here man. It’s like lions, tigers, and bass. You either going to make it or you ain’t going to make it.

Speaker 20 (49:31):
Normandy is one of them places where depending on your life situation, it can either be a come up or a trap.

Speaker 21 (49:40):
I wouldn’t have been here number probably two months. It took me number two months with the income I make doing trucking. Money ain’t the issue. It’s just getting into places that I want to do without the background check. But when the rent is so low and you trying to build yourself up, sometimes you got to squa your pride. Think about what’s at the end of the rainbow and keep pushing

Speaker 20 (50:03):
After kicking it with my man nigga for a while. Come to find out we done had similar experiences when it was coming to first moving in the normy,

Speaker 21 (50:16):
Moving up into Normy, it was like, oh hell no. The surroundings, the streets that I got to deal with, the people I got to deal with when I leave outside the building. Now as far as the Normy getting up in here, I feel secure because you can’t get in this building without Id. But far as the cleanliness, the big bugs, how you resent yourself, it is not, it’s not something I would suggest someone do unless they got hard.

Speaker 20 (50:49):
So when you leave your room to go to the bathroom at the normy and when you first move in, you don’t know what the hell to really expect.

Speaker 21 (50:57):
Get you a bleach bottle. Don’t touch the walls while you taking the shower. And we eat some shower shoes.

Speaker 20 (51:08):
I mean we talking low sitting ass toilets, radiator, heater, okay concrete. This bathroom is never going be warm. It’s nothing but concrete around. They ain’t did the growl. Dirty looking. Even though I can smell that they’ve attempted to clean it. It just has 96 years worth of urine and smelling it and it will never go away. And the one thing I immediately noticed was I was not about to have a private peaceful shit. The funny part is, for a while, one of Nick’s jobs until he got into something permanent was he was a maintenance man here. He worked in housekeeping and boy dude, he have some stories

Speaker 21 (51:54):
Man, there’s been people up here 20 years. I went in one room to see this dude every day. Never thought he was like this ahead. Things that he was using on hisself in there. That’s basically all I can tell you to go in there and clean something like that out.

Speaker 20 (52:16):
We had freaking deep to

Speaker 21 (52:17):
It, man. They’d make you quick to go in some of these showers, man, and find feces on the wall. It is like somebody was doing it in a bucket and was throwing it on the wall, man. It’s like,

Man, it is sad. You know? Got people in here that does so many drugs, they run up and down the hall in the underwear, you know, don’t know what’s going on. You got the police come in here, all they do is escort ’em out. The police need money and they let ’em back in. You got one jump from the fourth floor. We had a girl jump from the second floor. We had a maintenance man get shot six times in the hall, in the staircase. It’s stur to tail up in here since I’ve been here just for my two years. So you can imagine 15 years, 20 years,

Speaker 20 (53:04):
Normy is really a melting pot of every walk of life you could possibly think,

Speaker 21 (53:10):
Right? You got homeless people, you got prison people, you got so many people up. Been here with jewelry. Y’all know what I’m talking about around that anchor, right? The way, you don’t know what type person you are dealing with. So be careful for where you shit, you know? In other words, don’t shit where you lay.

Speaker 20 (53:28):
It’s going to be, people see this and say, oh, I could never, but when it’s the cheapest rent you can afford to put a roof over your head. Make sure you got a foundation to keep moving in life and going, you’ll be surprised where you could live.

Speaker 21 (53:45):
There’s a lot of bad things I can say about this place, but the first thing I have to work on is me. So if I got anything bad to say about this place, then I’m not working on me. So all I can tell you is I’m positive about me. Keep me, continue to keep me in your press for sure. And I’m out here, man,

Speaker 20 (54:02):
I have to talk in a nigga knowing him for some time. I got to say, I totally agree with his attitude and perspective of what this place really is about. It’s a place where you can reflect and work on you to rebuild, reshape you, and get you together. In the long I’m here, not only am I getting to learn a little bit more about myself, I’m getting to learn a little bit more about people. Four bedroom. My man of means by no means king of the room.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
That dude, it was beautiful.

Speaker 20 (54:42):
Thank you brother.

Speaker 5 (54:45):

Speaker 6 (54:46):
You got another room

Speaker 20 (54:46):
Over there? Thank. Hey. <laugh> at the turnover rate is very high.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
<laugh>, this motherfucker got a condo in Southfield. She’s like, wait a minute,

Speaker 20 (54:55):
Right? I was about to ask you, did you have a spare room? Where you at?

Speaker 5 (54:59):
Wait a minute. So your ex, does she, well, how’s she feeling about all this?

Speaker 20 (55:04):
Well, in the beginning it was of course a battle or whatnot, but she pretty much has just dealt with it. Is she

Speaker 5 (55:11):
Respecting you more that you’re doing

Speaker 20 (55:13):
That? Not really, but you know make the best of a bad situation and you keep moving this.

Speaker 5 (55:20):
That was beautiful, man. That was a, you’ve been doing these. That was a move. That was a move. Like excellent

Speaker 20 (55:28):
Work. Thank you. I’m

Speaker 5 (55:29):
Very proud of you. Thank you. I’m very proud of you.

Speaker 20 (55:33):
Happy Jesus gr. Great peace man. Really great piece. Good

Speaker 5 (55:37):
Reporting. Yes, Karen, I’m proud of you. I’m, I’m proud of this place. We’re not bullshit.

Speaker 20 (55:43):
Not at all. We’re

Speaker 5 (55:44):
Doing and thank you man. Yes. We’re just establishing something real in this shit. Well

Speaker 6 (55:50):
Thanks for having the confidence in, man. I know you got a beautiful team here and I just expected a lot of great things coming forward from you guys.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
Okay? You come back anytime and

Speaker 20 (55:59):
We enjoyed youre, I’ma be honest, man. You one of the best we’ve had in my opinion. And you fit right here, man. Come back.

Speaker 5 (56:06):
Thanks a lot. And never quit on each other. Never ever demand less. We can do better. Absolutely. He says so. Okay, Monday, Eric Mays,

Speaker 20 (56:19):
Ooh, it’s going to be good.

Speaker 5 (56:21):
And hippie G is going to run. Mark’s going on vacation. Hippie G is going to run the controls. So if it’s fucked up, fuck you.

Speaker 22 (56:27):
That’s not my fault. <laugh>.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
See ya.


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